3. Angels and Ross's dog
Subject: Angels and Ross's dog
What do I know about angels?
Thats a bit like a dog writing about humans, except the dog hasn't seen a human, but he heard there were some about some 2000 years ago.
Then again, some of us have seen angels, some of us know someone who has, and others have entertained angels unawares.
That would be tough wouldn't it, here we all are wanting to know more about angels and one comes and goes right under our nose.WE may have sent him packing, given him a coffee, or just a glass of water.
You can read about angels in both the New and Old Testaments. Where I am going with this is outside the square. Naturally.
Now you may have noticed, I set myself up already for some dissension:
I dont think angels would be very inclined to coffee, or any other drugs or stimulants.
And I referred to one as a" him"
And here's the rub, right thru the bible, there are no angels referred to as "she", no females ! This is heaven... no, not my idea of heaven, but the biblical version.
Whenever an angel is referred to by gender, the masculine is used, as it is for God . But also, some angels are given names. Michael. Gabriel. Pretty ordinary names, what?
Yet when angels are depicted, described or copied in modern literature, they are usually female. And if you google 'angels', you will quickly find some females that are definitely not angels.
So where does the concept of female angels come from?
Angels in the bible are messengers. In the original Hebrew it is usually the word 'malak' meaning mainly messenger, or deputy, also prophet, priest, teacher.
In the Greek it was aggelos, meaning angel, messenger and pastor.
Then also in modern pictures we have those delightful little winged cherubs, baby angels.
So, do angels have wings, what are cherubs, and where do baby angels come from? The Old Testament records quite a few cherubs, they have wings, but the Hebrew word for them is
'keruwb' meaning 'imaginary figure'.
My guess is that since Gods people were not allowed to draw pictures of God...no graven images... they may have used a metaphorical imaging to depict the holy angels.
So imaginary figures can have wings, or not as the case may be. I think they were depicted on the ark of the covenant.
Not all angels are messengers of God , however. We read about those who work for Satan. It would seem that this lot may have more free will than Gods angels. Maybe thats about the quality of the leadership. What appears to be freewill becomes eventually self destructive. Satans angels are destined to be destroyed in a war with Gods angels. What might that tell us about the immortality of angels? Because the war goes on so long I wonder if their are casualties on both sides? But then their reality is not our reality, so we cannot really guess how the defeat is waged. A bit like my dog above, guessing how humans would think.
There is always some debate whether the sons of God in Gen 6 were fallen angels, aliens or the sons of Seth. Or something else. If they were fallen angels, and nephelim meant fallen, then it is somewhat unusual that all the fallen ones were men. Well, actually I know some women who wouldnt think that unusual at all. But I refer to the figures on balance. Some think that the giants mentioned in the bible were descendants of these folk. There is some documentation of skeletons dug up over the years which measure from 9 to 36 feet in height. But this essay is not about giants, but angels.( I would like to see some DNA testing on any bones that exist now. I wonder what that would show?)
So we are up to where all angels are males. Maybe. Remember Elijah wrestling with an angel, all night?. Sort of proves the point does it not, what angelic female would do that?
We like to think of our angelic lasses as being the epitome of femininity. Or am I confusing that with mermaids?
So what I am wondering is, do the angels who bring the message to earthlings all adopt a male form, for our benefit, do they have a male form in heaven, or do only the male angels do the messaging?
Jesus said that in heaven there is no marrying nor giving in marriage in heaven. But because humans are expected in heaven and they are male and female, what happens to ones gender in the resurrection? We know that men and women, boys and girls think differently, behave differently, but I would have thought a lot of that is from the different hormones we have. In a resurrected body where we dont have the bodies we are used to , how do we differ from each other. Maybe we had better ask the above dog.
The dog tells me, that the lady angels are absolutely perfect females. They are angelic. They dont go to work, their menfolk do all the work, the messenging, fight the wars. The lady angels keep the home, sit and knit, do coffee, no, do water, and have meals on the table on time and on demand.
They are , according to my dog, angelic versions of the virtuous woman in Proverbs. She rises early and runs the household perfectly.They keep silence in the church, wear their hair as a crowning glory and ask their menfolk at home . You know the stuff. They dress modestly,....their hemlines are ,wait , I need to ask Les what verse that is in.
What I am saying, what my dog is saying, is that if you can imagine the perfect woman, then the angel women are even more perfect. They are an example to humans, something to aspire to. We might ask, is Womens Lib alive and well in heaven? Are there powerful women leaders , women who put themselves above their menfolk? Or do we imagine a raft of Mother Theresas and saintly women who care only for others?
And did I mention, these angel women are looking after their families?
The fact that there are males, if there are, implies the existence of females. And if there are males and females then do they have babies? Or do we interpret heaven as a place with males and females, with no marriages and no babies? That sounds like a mans heaven doesnt it, and is God a male? Anyway I digress. Its getting hard to concentrate. We were up to the babies. Where do babies come from? I refer to angels babies.
Remember Eves punishment to be borne by every woman after her, involved her desire being towards her husband?.....The punishment was for earth mothers, so, no babies in heaven, right?
Wrong. No marriages in heaven, so no husbands.
Still, there could conceivably be a bunch of babies. Maybe these perfect angelic women are absolute baby machines. Theres no pain in heaven, childbirth might be quite pleasant.
And in the bible it forecasts an innumerable company of angels. That is un countable. Whereas the descendents of Abraham can be numbered as the sand on the sea shores. Countable, it can be numbered.
So the dog and I, we just wonder. We sit and think. We think anything is possible. That maybe there are men angels, lady angels, baby angels. The dog is wondering, he says, what do you think about just little, just tiny, just here and there where you would hardly notice them , doorkeepers of the house we are talking about, the little watchdogs in the kingdom?
What do I know about angels?
Thats a bit like a dog writing about humans, except the dog hasn't seen a human, but he heard there were some about some 2000 years ago.
Then again, some of us have seen angels, some of us know someone who has, and others have entertained angels unawares.
That would be tough wouldn't it, here we all are wanting to know more about angels and one comes and goes right under our nose.WE may have sent him packing, given him a coffee, or just a glass of water.
You can read about angels in both the New and Old Testaments. Where I am going with this is outside the square. Naturally.
Now you may have noticed, I set myself up already for some dissension:
I dont think angels would be very inclined to coffee, or any other drugs or stimulants.
And I referred to one as a" him"
And here's the rub, right thru the bible, there are no angels referred to as "she", no females ! This is heaven... no, not my idea of heaven, but the biblical version.
Whenever an angel is referred to by gender, the masculine is used, as it is for God . But also, some angels are given names. Michael. Gabriel. Pretty ordinary names, what?
Yet when angels are depicted, described or copied in modern literature, they are usually female. And if you google 'angels', you will quickly find some females that are definitely not angels.
So where does the concept of female angels come from?
Angels in the bible are messengers. In the original Hebrew it is usually the word 'malak' meaning mainly messenger, or deputy, also prophet, priest, teacher.
In the Greek it was aggelos, meaning angel, messenger and pastor.
Then also in modern pictures we have those delightful little winged cherubs, baby angels.
So, do angels have wings, what are cherubs, and where do baby angels come from? The Old Testament records quite a few cherubs, they have wings, but the Hebrew word for them is
'keruwb' meaning 'imaginary figure'.
My guess is that since Gods people were not allowed to draw pictures of God...no graven images... they may have used a metaphorical imaging to depict the holy angels.
So imaginary figures can have wings, or not as the case may be. I think they were depicted on the ark of the covenant.
Not all angels are messengers of God , however. We read about those who work for Satan. It would seem that this lot may have more free will than Gods angels. Maybe thats about the quality of the leadership. What appears to be freewill becomes eventually self destructive. Satans angels are destined to be destroyed in a war with Gods angels. What might that tell us about the immortality of angels? Because the war goes on so long I wonder if their are casualties on both sides? But then their reality is not our reality, so we cannot really guess how the defeat is waged. A bit like my dog above, guessing how humans would think.
There is always some debate whether the sons of God in Gen 6 were fallen angels, aliens or the sons of Seth. Or something else. If they were fallen angels, and nephelim meant fallen, then it is somewhat unusual that all the fallen ones were men. Well, actually I know some women who wouldnt think that unusual at all. But I refer to the figures on balance. Some think that the giants mentioned in the bible were descendants of these folk. There is some documentation of skeletons dug up over the years which measure from 9 to 36 feet in height. But this essay is not about giants, but angels.( I would like to see some DNA testing on any bones that exist now. I wonder what that would show?)
So we are up to where all angels are males. Maybe. Remember Elijah wrestling with an angel, all night?. Sort of proves the point does it not, what angelic female would do that?
We like to think of our angelic lasses as being the epitome of femininity. Or am I confusing that with mermaids?
So what I am wondering is, do the angels who bring the message to earthlings all adopt a male form, for our benefit, do they have a male form in heaven, or do only the male angels do the messaging?
Jesus said that in heaven there is no marrying nor giving in marriage in heaven. But because humans are expected in heaven and they are male and female, what happens to ones gender in the resurrection? We know that men and women, boys and girls think differently, behave differently, but I would have thought a lot of that is from the different hormones we have. In a resurrected body where we dont have the bodies we are used to , how do we differ from each other. Maybe we had better ask the above dog.
The dog tells me, that the lady angels are absolutely perfect females. They are angelic. They dont go to work, their menfolk do all the work, the messenging, fight the wars. The lady angels keep the home, sit and knit, do coffee, no, do water, and have meals on the table on time and on demand.
They are , according to my dog, angelic versions of the virtuous woman in Proverbs. She rises early and runs the household perfectly.They keep silence in the church, wear their hair as a crowning glory and ask their menfolk at home . You know the stuff. They dress modestly,....their hemlines are ,wait , I need to ask Les what verse that is in.
What I am saying, what my dog is saying, is that if you can imagine the perfect woman, then the angel women are even more perfect. They are an example to humans, something to aspire to. We might ask, is Womens Lib alive and well in heaven? Are there powerful women leaders , women who put themselves above their menfolk? Or do we imagine a raft of Mother Theresas and saintly women who care only for others?
And did I mention, these angel women are looking after their families?
The fact that there are males, if there are, implies the existence of females. And if there are males and females then do they have babies? Or do we interpret heaven as a place with males and females, with no marriages and no babies? That sounds like a mans heaven doesnt it, and is God a male? Anyway I digress. Its getting hard to concentrate. We were up to the babies. Where do babies come from? I refer to angels babies.
Remember Eves punishment to be borne by every woman after her, involved her desire being towards her husband?.....The punishment was for earth mothers, so, no babies in heaven, right?
Wrong. No marriages in heaven, so no husbands.
Still, there could conceivably be a bunch of babies. Maybe these perfect angelic women are absolute baby machines. Theres no pain in heaven, childbirth might be quite pleasant.
And in the bible it forecasts an innumerable company of angels. That is un countable. Whereas the descendents of Abraham can be numbered as the sand on the sea shores. Countable, it can be numbered.
So the dog and I, we just wonder. We sit and think. We think anything is possible. That maybe there are men angels, lady angels, baby angels. The dog is wondering, he says, what do you think about just little, just tiny, just here and there where you would hardly notice them , doorkeepers of the house we are talking about, the little watchdogs in the kingdom?
1 Comments:
G'day Ross,
Yeah this one is pretty 'left field' - whatever that means! You make some interesting points...
FEMALE ANGELS?
Whenever an angel is referred to by gender, the masculine is used,
as it is for God. But also, some angels are given names. Michael.
Gabriel. Pretty ordinary names, what?
Yet when angels are depicted, described or copied in modern
literature, they are usually female. And if you google 'angels', you
will quickly find some females that are definitely not angels.
So where does the concept of female angels come from? <
I suspect from the Catholic Church. Where did the concept of 'Mary,
Holy Mother of God' from?? or 'Mary Blessed (Eternally) Virgin'?
The Catholic Church has been very adept throught the ages at
adopting pagan concepts which might help it win converts in a given
culture. Thus the 'Earth Mother goddess' was quickly adopted from
pagan Europe & ME and the cult of Mary begun. A load of bunkum, of
course!
Female angels? You will probably find them in the history of pagan
Europe, sometime before 1000 AD.
Just like Matthew 2, which has been in my thoughts for the last 2
gospel mtgs here. The '3 Kings (one black & two white)', coming on
their camels to worship the baby Jesus in a stable in Bethlehem, and
all that...
Well our ex-Catholic congregation here have been surprised at the
things we have mentioned as being in that chapter (and also the
things which are NOT!) Comments like, "Well I never knew that!", or
"That is the first time in my life I have heard that!"
For example, nowhere does it mention "three" as being the number of
'magi' ("wise men" - KJV) who came from the east, nor is there any
mention of camels, black men, etc! And v.11 clearly says they
worshipped Him, "In the house..." !!
So an awful lot of Catholic mythology, which is taken as 'truth' by
much of the Western world - yes, often by Protestants also!
SATAN'S 'ANGELS'?
I don't think of Satan's messengers as 'angels', but as 'fallen
angels', or 'former angels'... So some kind of 'evil spirits' who can
still do extraordinary things, but not 'angels with freewill'...
ANGELS HAVE WINGS?
You are right, no mention of 'wings' in the bible, except for
cherubim!
However John does say he saw an angel 'fly' in Rev.14:6. But maybe
the angel 'zoomed', rather than 'fluttered' on wings?!? And since
poor old John was struggling to find adequate words, and didn't know
about 'jet propulsion' (or 'anti-gravitational magnetic fields'), he
used the verb "fly"?? Other places he mentions angels "ascending"
(like vapour?), which does not necessarily require wings.
WHAT TYPE OF BODY?
To me, your earlier writings on 'the other dimensions' are closer
to the Truth than trying to imagine males, females and babies in
heaven! There is no physical existence heaven, and even the 'new
body' is not physical - normally. Perhaps it can take that form
sometimes... Jesus was in a recognisable 'body' when He appeared to
the disciples, although He had just come through the wall!! (And
similarly vanished without trace!)
Like the 'angels' which appeared at various times to people... and
then vanished again. I like the picture in Judges 13:20 of the
'angel' who appeared to Manoah (father of Sampson.) The 'angel'
simply vanished in the smoke of his sacrifice! Perhaps the
new/angelic body is something like smoke, or vapour? Under certain
conditions, water vapour (which has mass, I realise, so not a perfect
illustration of the spiritual. What is?!) is visible... but under
other conditions, the water vapour is invisible!
If LIGHT is an example of the non-mass energy of God and the
heavenly kingdom, perhaps 'hologram' is a more accurate description?
So the 'new bodies' are nothing more than a sophisticated 'laser
light show'?!
With these few thoghts, I'm off - like a robber's dog!!
Cheers, Elijah
----Original Message-----
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